Flexalite Black Magic Electric Fan FLX-165

ChickenLover · 07-13-2005, 08:23 PM

I am starting this thread as a warning to those considering swapping out the clutch fan on thier 3.0 for a flexalite black magic e-fan. At the steep price of $230+, the flexalite WILL cause you to overheat. My overheating problems associated with this fan started at an outside temp of 85 degrees and just got worse from there.

To confirm that the fan was the problem - I took a drive up a steep windy grade with the a/c on, at an average speed of 45mph (it was right around 85* outside). The runner overheated after about 5 minutes. I went straight home, put the OEM clutch fan back on and did the same drive under the same exact cirumstances an hour later. It did not overheat.

Due to the fact that I was unfortunate enough to lay down the $$ for this POS fan, I will be keeping it for use in the winter/fall season. I know there are other members who have had the same problem. Hopefully they will chime in for further proof that this fan isn't worth the gas from a can of beans.

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farmerj · 07-13-2005, 08:50 PM

Been concidering one of these fans for my 4Runner....

Just curious, did you hook up the fan to the A/C compressor to have it run when it is on?

From what I have read on the instructions and my understanding of cooling systems, it is a must for the fan to pull air when you have high heat and A/C demands.

ChickenLover · 07-13-2005, 08:54 PM

It was wired to a switch on the center console. It was on all the time.

oly884 · 07-13-2005, 08:54 PM

I'm going to assume that you had the thermostat in the right place, and you calibrated it?

oly884 · 07-13-2005, 08:55 PM

ah, never mind.

FWIW, I never had a problem with mine, and I was in 110 degree heat wheeling.

ChickenLover · 07-13-2005, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oly884

ah, never mind.

FWIW, I never had a problem with mine, and I was in 110 degree heat wheeling.

Was it a FLX-165 on the 3.0?

oly884 · 07-13-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenLover

Was it a FLX-165 on the 3.0?

Yeah, on my old truck.

Just throwing out ideas as to why.

Last time coolent been changed?
What about with A/C off? (i didn't have ac on my old truck)
were you positive it was on?
anything blocking the radiator?

I'm sure all of these things have nothing to do with it. It could be possible you got a bad unit.

ChickenLover · 07-13-2005, 09:04 PM

Interesting. My cooling system is in tip-top shape. The fan was undoubtedly the problem. The overheating occured when the engine was under decent load. And yes, it would overheat with the a/c off.

oly884 · 07-13-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenLover

Interesting. My cooling system is in tip-top shape. The fan was undoubtedly the problem. The overheating occured when the engine was under decent load. And yes, it would overheat with the a/c off.

If that's the case, then I'd most likely say it was a bad unit.

However, I would also say that it wasn't worth the money for it. I didn't notice enough of a diff in power, and mileage to make suggest using it again.

farmerj · 07-13-2005, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oly884

If that's the case, then I'd most likely say it was a bad unit.

However, I would also say that it wasn't worth the money for it. I didn't notice enough of a diff in power, and mileage to make suggest using it again.

What I am hearing you say is that for $230 bones, I would be better off spending the money on a different modification than to install an electric fan...

Steveh29 · 07-14-2005, 09:38 AM

I also had problems with my Flex-A-Lite Black Magic fan. I purchased mine because I was doing a 2" body lift and didn't want to relocate the radiator. I'd never had cooling problems with my truck prior to installing the fan. Here's my experience:

I installed the Flex A Lite fan prior to the body lift and it took me a couple of days tinkering with the thermostat to get it to operate properly. I did wire the fan into the A/C circuit so it operated full time when the A/C was running. I didn't notice any overheating problems at first because my install was done in the fall during cooler outdoor temps and I wasn't using the A/C much. I was pleased with the fairly easy install process on the fan.

Then I did the 2" body lift on the truck.

When summer came around and temps rose, I noticed the truck would run hotter than normal on uphill grades. Speed did not matter, A/C could be on or off. I began to experiement to see how hot she'd run. I found that I could easily get the truck to overheat on uphill grades that were less than a mile in length - even at highway speeds where a lot of wind was moving over the vehicle. The strange part was once I hit the downhill side of the grade, the engine would immediately cool down to normal temp. Again, any speed and any grade caused an overheating on uphill and a very fast return to normal temps on the downhill.

I knew the fan was running as I'd wired in an LED indicator in the dash. I called my cousin who owns a repair shop and he immediately told me it was the electric fan. I didn't buy it and spent the next couple of years tinkering around thinking something else was the problem. I replaced the thermostat, all hoses, water pump (during a timing belt change), replaced the radiator when it sprung a leak, and I even took off the body lift thinking that was the problem. Nothing changed the overheating problem. I began to think it was the dreaded 3.0 headgasket so I decided to live with it as best I could until it totally blew.

I experienced overheating daily in the summer months on my commute to and from work going over a hill on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles. I'd have to turn off the AC and run the heater to make it over this average grade each way during warm summer temps.

Last spring I figured the headgasket couldn't be the problem as the truck still ran well and hadn't blown like I expected. As a last ditch effort I removed the electric fan. I bought a new fan clutch and re-installed the factory fan and shroud. The next day on my drive to and from work - NO OVERHEATING! The engine maintained perfectly cool temps through traffic with the A/C on. I've since done several road tests including four wheeling and confirmed that my overheating problem is gone. I even bought a new 1" Roger Brown body lift and use my factory mechanical fan with no problems.

I should have listened to my cousin and ditched the fan immediately.

My Worthless Opinion: The fan was kind of expensive and didn't cool the vehicle properly. It was louder than the factory fan and placed a decent strain on the alternator too. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't have bought the Flex-A-Lite Black Magic fan. Some folks have no problems, and some feel the fan gives them added horsepower. If it works for them, that's great! For me it was a bad purchase.

**waskillywabbit** · 07-14-2005, 04:53 PM

For $230 you can get 2 or 3 Taurus fan's and the nice controller that bamachem got and do it right...FAL fans are a waste of $$$ IMO when you can go cheaper and much better from everything I've researched.

toyo22r · 07-16-2005, 09:27 AM

I have to agree... the FAL 165 fan is a POS! I experienced the exact same symptoms... I went through a new radiator and thermostat before I posted here and asked questions.

I called FAL tech services and explained the problem. He asked if i lived in Phoenix or other high summer temp area. I said no. St. Louis, which gets hot and humid but rearly over 100*. After telling him it was very noticable in the amount of air getting moved between the stock fan and FAL, he agreed, and said " Well i guess this fan wont work for you truck".. Well no ! Since the fan is only 4-5 months old, he agreed to issue an RA# to the place where i bought it for a refund... I told him that many other people on this board have experienced problems with this fan.

Definitely save your money and put it toward another mod.

toyo22r
95 4Runner
St. Louis, MO.

Cebby · 07-16-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oly884

If that's the case, then I'd most likely say it was a bad unit.

However, I would also say that it wasn't worth the money for it. I didn't notice enough of a diff in power, and mileage to make suggest using it again.

Never had a problem with mine and was completely happy with it. There are cheaper ways to get similar performance.

rngrchad · 07-16-2005, 01:16 PM

I'm glad I read this post. I've been looking into an electric fan replacement. Hmmmm....I better research a bit more. Waskillywabbit, I'll have to look into the tauraus fan mod. Does it work on Taco's?
-Chad

**waskillywabbit** · 07-16-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrchad

I'm glad I read this post. I've been looking into an electric fan replacement. Hmmmm....I better research a bit more. Waskillywabbit, I'll have to look into the tauraus fan mod. Does it work on Taco's?
-Chad

I'd look on the national TTORA website.

rngrchad · 07-16-2005, 04:35 PM

Sweet, I'll go check ttora out.

TRDOLMAN · 07-17-2005, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyo22r

I have to agree... the FAL 165 fan is a POS! I experienced the exact same symptoms... I went through a new radiator and thermostat before I posted here and asked questions.

I called FAL tech services and explained the problem. He asked if i lived in Phoenix or other high summer temp area. I said no. St. Louis, which gets hot and humid but rearly over 100*. After telling him it was very noticable in the amount of air getting moved between the stock fan and FAL, he agreed, and said " Well i guess this fan wont work for you truck".. Well no ! Since the fan is only 4-5 months old, he agreed to issue an RA# to the place where i bought it for a refund... I told him that many other people on this board have experienced problems with this fan.

Definitely save your money and put it toward another mod.

toyo22r
95 4Runner
St. Louis, MO.

I think the problem is the fan not the mod. That is only a 15" fan. You have to remove the factory shroud and mount the FAL fan in the middle of the radiator. With that setup you are only pulling air through a small portion of your radiator. No wonder you heat up! That's a bad design. I run an 18" permacool metal bladed electric fan that installs in the factory shroud. It pulls air across the entire radiator just like the stock fan does. You can look at the installed fan in my webshots link. I run the crap out of my truck and it works great.

Think about this---if you took off the stock fan shroud and ran your belt driven fan in the same conditions the original poster did, that setup would probably heat up also. You have to pull air across as much of the radiator as you can and you simply can't do that with a FAL 165.

Dave

bigdirtdog · 08-05-2005, 07:35 AM

I just installed a Black Magic Extreme 180, because I heard of problems with certain models, the ones that are listed for your specific vehicle cause overheating. Due mostly to fan size all shroud covering is too small. The 180 covers the entire radiator and encloses better than the stock fan on my 94 Toy PU. It has been hot and humid in the Mid-Atlantic so AC is on full blast I set the Temp a little cooler than normal and runs extremely well even stuck in traffic seems too keep the air from the AC cooler and more comfortable.

bamachem · 08-05-2005, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrchad

Sweet, I'll go check ttora out.

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/wiki/..._Toyota_Shroud

is basically the same writeup as:

http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=61008

and

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...ad.php?t=11878

jmach1 · 08-11-2005, 02:26 AM

I had a 1990 V6 toy 4x4 that I ended up putting the flex a lite elec fan in, worked fine for me. Really, the only reason I am bringing this up is that my original fan came apart while driving and destroyed my radiator, hoses, belts, shroud, battery, resonator, windshield wiper reservoir, coolant reservoir as well as put 4 large holes in my hood. This happened at about 120,000 miles. I then found out the fan should be replaced even if it works fine, but I do not know at what mileage.
Has this happen to anybody else out there?
JMach1

wynn · 08-11-2005, 06:04 PM

Don't get me wrong, I agree there are plenty of other mods of much greater worth than the FAL 165. I further agree that it isn't the greatest design (or mod) because of the problem people have with them. If you're looking to get rid of the belt fan look into the Taurus or permacool fan (maybe FAL has it figured out with the 180).

I do hovever, have to say there must be something to change or fix ChickenLover's fan. To have problems at 85 degrees begs the question of the unit/probe being bad. Last month was the hottest july on record in the Las Vegas valley. For two weeks we had highs constantly in the 115 area of the thermometer. We even had lows as high as 96 degrees. I had a co-worker point a thermometer check thing at the ground and it said 148 degrees. Through this I only had mine (start) overheat going uphill at WOT after I had driven around and been on the highway for a while. The air stopped working, I slowed down, and left the air off for a few minutes. When I exited the freeway, everything was back to fine.

It did overheat a bit when I originally installed it on my 94. But I heated it up a few times with the stock fan as well.

I'm not saying you haven't overheated or that the 165 is worth it (I'm actually glad you've let others know about this). I just think that 85 degrees is waay too low to have problems.

ChickenLover · 08-11-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wynn

I just think that 85 degrees is waay too low to have problems.

You have to take into consideration the thin air at 5k+ and the fact that we have some really steep grades up here. I've never had an overheating issue with the OEM clutch fan. Not even this past July when we were hit with the same heat wave as you. Although, not quite as hot, but 100+ for two weeks none the less. I doubt my truck would have made it around the block with the flx-165.

It may be possible that I got a bad unit. However, it appeared to run just fine. And the fact that there are quite a few YT members with the same problem leads me to believe that it would be worth one's while to stay away from the 165.

yoterr · 01-29-2009, 10:03 AM

200 bucks and i got a derale dual electric fan for my F-150 it was only a 4.2 but i hooked the fans up to an ignition source to have them run all the time NEVER had any thing close to a heat up, pulling trailers, mudsligin all sorts of stuff..this unit also pulls 4,000 CFM's of air and it fits all the way across the radiator comes in diff widths too, just my .02

07-13-2005, 08:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
farmerj Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central Minnesota Posts: 456	Been concidering one of these fans for my 4Runner.... Just curious, did you hook up the fan to the A/C compressor to have it run when it is on? From what I have read on the instructions and my understanding of cooling systems, it is a must for the fan to pull air when you have high heat and A/C demands. __________________ Life is too short to have to work.... RIP - 4 July 2008 - '88 4Runner, Audiovox Cruise Control,Valvoline Full Synthetic Gear oil, SR5 instrument cluster, '95 4Runner Seats, Rear U-bolt Flip

07-13-2005, 08:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
ChickenLover Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NV Posts: 2,583	It was wired to a switch on the center console. It was on all the time. __________________ 95 4Runner, 3VZE , 141k, 4WD, Auto. (Head gaskets replaced at 106k)

07-13-2005, 09:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
ChickenLover Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NV Posts: 2,583	Interesting. My cooling system is in tip-top shape. The fan was undoubtedly the problem. The overheating occured when the engine was under decent load. And yes, it would overheat with the a/c off. __________________ 95 4Runner, 3VZE , 141k, 4WD, Auto. (Head gaskets replaced at 106k)

07-14-2005, 09:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
Steveh29 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 726	I also had problems with my Flex-A-Lite Black Magic fan. I purchased mine because I was doing a 2" body lift and didn't want to relocate the radiator. I'd never had cooling problems with my truck prior to installing the fan. Here's my experience: I installed the Flex A Lite fan prior to the body lift and it took me a couple of days tinkering with the thermostat to get it to operate properly. I did wire the fan into the A/C circuit so it operated full time when the A/C was running. I didn't notice any overheating problems at first because my install was done in the fall during cooler outdoor temps and I wasn't using the A/C much. I was pleased with the fairly easy install process on the fan. Then I did the 2" body lift on the truck. When summer came around and temps rose, I noticed the truck would run hotter than normal on uphill grades. Speed did not matter, A/C could be on or off. I began to experiement to see how hot she'd run. I found that I could easily get the truck to overheat on uphill grades that were less than a mile in length - even at highway speeds where a lot of wind was moving over the vehicle. The strange part was once I hit the downhill side of the grade, the engine would immediately cool down to normal temp. Again, any speed and any grade caused an overheating on uphill and a very fast return to normal temps on the downhill. I knew the fan was running as I'd wired in an LED indicator in the dash. I called my cousin who owns a repair shop and he immediately told me it was the electric fan. I didn't buy it and spent the next couple of years tinkering around thinking something else was the problem. I replaced the thermostat, all hoses, water pump (during a timing belt change), replaced the radiator when it sprung a leak, and I even took off the body lift thinking that was the problem. Nothing changed the overheating problem. I began to think it was the dreaded 3.0 headgasket so I decided to live with it as best I could until it totally blew. I experienced overheating daily in the summer months on my commute to and from work going over a hill on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles. I'd have to turn off the AC and run the heater to make it over this average grade each way during warm summer temps. Last spring I figured the headgasket couldn't be the problem as the truck still ran well and hadn't blown like I expected. As a last ditch effort I removed the electric fan. I bought a new fan clutch and re-installed the factory fan and shroud. The next day on my drive to and from work - NO OVERHEATING! The engine maintained perfectly cool temps through traffic with the A/C on. I've since done several road tests including four wheeling and confirmed that my overheating problem is gone. I even bought a new 1" Roger Brown body lift and use my factory mechanical fan with no problems. I should have listened to my cousin and ditched the fan immediately. My Worthless Opinion: The fan was kind of expensive and didn't cool the vehicle properly. It was louder than the factory fan and placed a decent strain on the alternator too. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't have bought the Flex-A-Lite Black Magic fan. Some folks have no problems, and some feel the fan gives them added horsepower. If it works for them, that's great! For me it was a bad purchase. __________________ Steve 1995 4Runner - V6 - 5 Speed Rear ARB, Manual Hubs, Front TruTrac, Marlin Transmission, ARB Front & Sonoran Steel Rear bumpers that have saved my life!! Last edited by Steveh29; 07-14-2005 at 03:47 PM.

07-14-2005, 04:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 14,546	For $230 you can get 2 or 3 Taurus fan's and the nice controller that bamachem got and do it right...FAL fans are a waste of $$$ IMO when you can go cheaper and much better from everything I've researched. __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it. WabFab Off-Road 4th Anniversary Sale

07-13-2005, 08:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
oly884 Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,703	I'm going to assume that you had the thermostat in the right place, and you calibrated it?

07-13-2005, 08:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
oly884 Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,703	ah, never mind. FWIW, I never had a problem with mine, and I was in 110 degree heat wheeling.

07-16-2005, 09:27 AM	#13 (permalink)
toyo22r Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Missouri Posts: 81	I have to agree... the FAL 165 fan is a POS! I experienced the exact same symptoms... I went through a new radiator and thermostat before I posted here and asked questions. I called FAL tech services and explained the problem. He asked if i lived in Phoenix or other high summer temp area. I said no. St. Louis, which gets hot and humid but rearly over 100*. After telling him it was very noticable in the amount of air getting moved between the stock fan and FAL, he agreed, and said " Well i guess this fan wont work for you truck".. Well no ! Since the fan is only 4-5 months old, he agreed to issue an RA# to the place where i bought it for a refund... I told him that many other people on this board have experienced problems with this fan. Definitely save your money and put it toward another mod. toyo22r 95 4Runner St. Louis, MO.

07-16-2005, 01:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
rngrchad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Currently reside in Ohio Posts: 858	I'm glad I read this post. I've been looking into an electric fan replacement. Hmmmm....I better research a bit more. Waskillywabbit, I'll have to look into the tauraus fan mod. Does it work on Taco's? -Chad __________________ 2008 Tacoma TRD Access Cab v-6. 97 regular cab tacoma 33x9.5bfg at, 4.10 gears, custom sliders, custom rear bumper, 4xinnovation tube doors, lockright. 1983 SA Axle Frameoff Restore. CB: Connex 3300hp Radio driving a FatBoy Amp doing around 1000watts on AM. Antenna: Monkey Made MM5 -=NO BAMA 08 =-

07-16-2005, 04:35 PM	#17 (permalink)
rngrchad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Currently reside in Ohio Posts: 858	Sweet, I'll go check ttora out. __________________ 2008 Tacoma TRD Access Cab v-6. 97 regular cab tacoma 33x9.5bfg at, 4.10 gears, custom sliders, custom rear bumper, 4xinnovation tube doors, lockright. 1983 SA Axle Frameoff Restore. CB: Connex 3300hp Radio driving a FatBoy Amp doing around 1000watts on AM. Antenna: Monkey Made MM5 -=NO BAMA 08 =-

08-05-2005, 07:35 AM	#19 (permalink)
bigdirtdog Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 22	I just installed a Black Magic Extreme 180, because I heard of problems with certain models, the ones that are listed for your specific vehicle cause overheating. Due mostly to fan size all shroud covering is too small. The 180 covers the entire radiator and encloses better than the stock fan on my 94 Toy PU. It has been hot and humid in the Mid-Atlantic so AC is on full blast I set the Temp a little cooler than normal and runs extremely well even stuck in traffic seems too keep the air from the AC cooler and more comfortable.

08-11-2005, 02:26 AM	#21 (permalink)
jmach1 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 145	I had a 1990 V6 toy 4x4 that I ended up putting the flex a lite elec fan in, worked fine for me. Really, the only reason I am bringing this up is that my original fan came apart while driving and destroyed my radiator, hoses, belts, shroud, battery, resonator, windshield wiper reservoir, coolant reservoir as well as put 4 large holes in my hood. This happened at about 120,000 miles. I then found out the fan should be replaced even if it works fine, but I do not know at what mileage. Has this happen to anybody else out there? JMach1

08-11-2005, 06:04 PM	#22 (permalink)
wynn Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 100	Somethings wrong Don't get me wrong, I agree there are plenty of other mods of much greater worth than the FAL 165. I further agree that it isn't the greatest design (or mod) because of the problem people have with them. If you're looking to get rid of the belt fan look into the Taurus or permacool fan (maybe FAL has it figured out with the 180). I do hovever, have to say there must be something to change or fix ChickenLover's fan. To have problems at 85 degrees begs the question of the unit/probe being bad. Last month was the hottest july on record in the Las Vegas valley. For two weeks we had highs constantly in the 115 area of the thermometer. We even had lows as high as 96 degrees. I had a co-worker point a thermometer check thing at the ground and it said 148 degrees. Through this I only had mine (start) overheat going uphill at WOT after I had driven around and been on the highway for a while. The air stopped working, I slowed down, and left the air off for a few minutes. When I exited the freeway, everything was back to fine. It did overheat a bit when I originally installed it on my 94. But I heated it up a few times with the stock fan as well. I'm not saying you haven't overheated or that the 165 is worth it (I'm actually glad you've let others know about this). I just think that 85 degrees is waay too low to have problems. __________________ 1994 4runner SR5 4X4 V6 K&N DROP-IN, Warn hubs 1995 4runner- Bumpers, Warn winch, sliders, 33s, MT II wheels, Rancho 9000s, SAW t bars, Rockstomper brace, Aisin hubs, Rockstomper disconnects, Panhard, Downey 1.5 HDs, Daystar 1.25 spacers, Detoit EZ front, Detroit soft rear, 1" RB body lift, FAL fan 1999 4runner Limited 2wd- two kids carseats (the best mods ever)

01-29-2009, 10:03 AM	#24 (permalink)
yoterr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Inverness,FL Posts: 1,037	200 bucks and i got a derale dual electric fan for my F-150 it was only a 4.2 but i hooked the fans up to an ignition source to have them run all the time NEVER had any thing close to a heat up, pulling trailers, mudsligin all sorts of stuff..this unit also pulls 4,000 CFM's of air and it fits all the way across the radiator comes in diff widths too, just my .02 __________________ new to me 86' toy on 35" procomp mud terrains, with a 4" lift and 3" body and palm fron camo for now... 04' Dodge 2500 4x4 QC hemi leveled, home made CAI and flowmaster exhaust

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